Hughes News: Eleanor Hughes reunites with Dr. Michael Green and Lyric Hughes Hale 3 years after recording a podcast for The Hale Report
Dear Readers,
Hi everyone, I’m Eleanor Shiori Hughes, and I’m a Non-Resident Fellow with econVue and the host of the Hughes News podcast. For Episode 4, it was a real treat to have such an intellectually stimulating conversation with two people who have been instrumental in shaping my professional trajectory: Dr. Michael Green and Lyric Hughes Hale.
About My Featured Guests
❝I don't think there is any scenario where Japan is not almost immediately entrapped in [a Taiwan] fight. Whether the U.S. asks or not, it's clear the Chinese are planning that. And it's very likely the same with Australia. Very hard to see a scenario where the Chinese don't immediately go at Australia either directly or through threats. And of course for Australia, successful Chinese coercion and swallowing of Taiwan is pretty close to existential because of the sea lanes and Australia's dependence on the sea and Taiwan sitting smack dab in the middle of the first island chain. [Australia has] been in every fight with [the U.S.] since 1918. And this one, more than any fight since certainly World War II, maybe arguably Vietnam, directly threatens Australia's survival.
– Dr. Michael Green’s conclusion that it is hard to imagine Japan and Australia being bystanders of a Taiwan contingency because both countries’ national interests are tethered to Taiwan’s strategic well-being.
Our first guest is Dr. Michael Green, CEO of the United States Studies Centre (USSC) at the University of Sydney and the Henry A. Kissinger Chair at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). He is the host of The Asia Chessboard through his capacity at both CSIS and the USSC. Before he relocated to Sydney in 2022, Dr. Green was the Senior Vice President for Asia at CSIS and concurrently the Director of the Asian Studies Program at Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service in Washington, DC. From 2001 - 2005, Dr. Green served as Special Assistant to US President George W. Bush and Senior Director for Asian Affairs on National Security Council staff. He has authored a number of books, two of which include Line of Advantage: Japan’s Grand Strategy in the Era of Abe Shinzō and By More Than Providence: Grand Strategy and American Power in the Asia Pacific Since 1783.
I first crossed paths with Dr. Green when he became my faculty adviser at Georgetown’s Asian Studies Program (MASIA), and I’ve learned immensely from him while both at Georgetown and beyond. Over the past few years, I have worked with and for him pertaining to Japanese foreign policy, but more recently on issues relating to Australia.
❝The U.S. federal government was funded by tariffs all the way up to the Civil War. There was no income tax at that time. So tariffs have played a role in [America]’s development. And it was because of that revenue stream of tariffs that we were able to borrow the money from European banks to make the Louisiana Purchase, which doubled the size of our country. So I think we need to look at economic history, the historical context.
– Lyric Hughes Hale’s reflection that it is useful to look back at U.S. history to see that tariffs weren’t always a coercive economic instrument to advance U.S. economic interests.
As for our second guest, if you are an econVue subscriber, then Lyric needs no introduction. For those who are newly acquainted with our platform, Lyric Hughes Hale is the Editor-in-Chief of econVue, and regularly publishes a newsletter on contemporary China; economic and monetary policy; and related topics. Lyric is also the Director of Research at Hale Strategic, a consultancy based in Chicago. She is the host of The Hale Report, where she interviews thought leaders from the world of economics. Lyric has decades of experience advising multinational firms, as well as U.S. companies seeking market opportunities in Asia. Lyric is a board member of the Australian American Leadership Dialogue, and is also a member of the Bretton Woods Committee and the Council on Foreign Relations. I have known Lyric for a long time, and I am extremely thankful for all that I’ve learned and worked with her through econVue and other professional capacities.
This podcast was recorded on Thursday, May 15, 2025 (US EDT) (Friday, May 16 in AEST). Here is a list of some of the topics that the three of us talked about:
How Dr. Green and Lyric found their calling to become seasoned Asia hands
A progress report on the Trump administration‘s outreach with its Asian allies and partners so far and how economic considerations are taking center stage
The Albanese Labor Government’s proposition to tax unrealized capital gains for superannuation funds. I’ve flagged a few pieces and op-eds for those who want to read more about this:
Super tax changes the real test of Albanese’s election victory (Sydney Morning Herald)
If you think Labor’s $3m super tax won’t hit you, think again (Australian Financial Review)
Australia’s federal elections and the myriad of challenges that the country is facing including the dearth of productivity, the LNG industry’s trajectory, and its relatively lean defense budget.
Australia’s multifaceted relationship with Indonesia and China
The extent to which Japan and Australia would get involved in a hypothetical Taiwan contingency
Words of wisdom and advice for the 🎓Class of 2025 🎓
You can find the audio version of our podcast recording below:
Closing Thoughts
In sum, I felt like I traveled back in time to when the three of us recorded an episode for Lyric’s The Hale Report podcast. At the time, Dr. Green and I had just released two works about a foreign policy giant who played an integral role in shaping the state of Asia today: the late Prime Minister Abe. Looking back, there is no question that strategic circumstances have changed considerably since then - but not all for the worse. There is still reason to be hopeful, and not everything has to be seen in a negative light.
And now I’d like to convey a short message to the Class of 2025, particularly those with a keen interest in Asia. Rest assured, there is only going to be a greater demand for your talents, curiosity, and entrepreneurial spirit. We need it now more than ever, and you are our hope for a more just and prosperous Asia. From my own experiences of being a graduate student taking classes via Zoom during the height of Covid-19, I learned that in the midst of challenging times, there is nothing wrong with surrounding oneself with people in your corner who bring joyful energy. For me, both Dr. Green and Lyric have supported me through thick and thin, and I look forward to many more years of mentorship and friendship.
To the Class of 2025, here’s to beginning a new and exhilarating chapter in your lives.
Best wishes to you all,
💬 Eleanor
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