🎙️ Episode Details
Guest: Joel Ross: The Hale Report Ep. 72
Title: Where Main Street Meets Wall Street
Host: Lyric Hughes Hale, Editor-in-Chief of econVue
Producer: Sam Fu
⮑ Recorded Thu Sep 4, 2025 · 2:00 PM CDT (Chicago) · 78 minutes
In Episode 72 of The Hale Report, Joel Ross, a Wall Street veteran and author of the legendary Ross Rant newsletter, joins Lyric Hughes Hale to discuss what markets are telling us, and why. For decades, Ross has called out trends in finance, real estate, politics, and policy–long before they hit the headlines.
From pioneering hotel securitizations on Wall Street to writing some of the most candid—and controversial—market commentary out there, Joel Ross has never shied away from saying what others won’t. Although his writing is bold and acerbic, in person he has the calm demeanor of your favorite professor, serenely comfortable with his subject.
One of the few people to forecast the mortgage-backed securities crisis back in 2007, Ross shares the risks he sees today, just around the corner. It’s a conversation that’s equal parts markets, money, and straight talk.
🎤 Key Moments
On Vietnam and the Gulf of Tonkin
❝ Vietnam made clear to me things are not always what they appear to be, and what Washington tells you may have little coincidence with the truth.
On why he started The Ross Rant
❝ I started in late 2007 sending emails to my YPO forum group. Over time it spread, and now it’s read by some of the top people on Wall Street and in Washington. If somebody doesn’t like what I say, they can unsubscribe.
On the stock market
❝ The market’s gone up for the moment, but if they don’t straighten out the fiscal mess, we’re going to have a crisis.
On real estate developers
❝ Real estate developers are a breed of their own. Risk is what they’re all about—putting their head through the wall and smashing it down.
On empty office buildings
❝ Older C-class and B-class properties are getting emptied. The economics don’t work. They’ll be demolished. You can’t put windows in the middle of a building.
On housing prices
❝ It’s not the rate, it’s the price. Home prices have to come down 10–15% to make any sense. That’s the only way affordability comes back.
On AI & labor markets
❝ We’re in the first inning. 95% of early attempts may fail, but like the industrial revolution, businesses will be created out of the innovation.”
On leadership
❝George Washington—I can’t imagine how he motivated ragged soldiers to cross the Delaware in the middle of winter. How did he put it all together?
🔑 Takeaway
Joel Ross sees the stock market’s recent rally, which he predicted, as real but fragile—propped up by policy moves and momentum, but overshadowed by looming fiscal risks. In his view, Wall Street’s strength doesn’t erase Main Street’s localized structural problems, especially in real estate, nor Washington’s spending problem. And he does not believe that lower interest rates will make any difference. His message is clear: markets, politics, and policy are inseparable.
🎙️About Our Guest: Joel Ross
After serving two tours of duty in Vietnam, Joel Ross began his career as a Wall Street investment banker; and then later became CEO (North America) of a UK conglomerate. He founded Ross Properties (1981) and Citadel Realty Advisors (1999). He was a pioneer of hotel CMBS programs with Nomura/Lexington Mortgage in the early 1990s; and has has closed $3B+ in financings. Like President Trump, he is both a Wharton grad, and a New York real estate developer.
🎙️About Our Host: Lyric Hughes Hale
📍Chicago
📚 Referenced in this Podcast
Joel Ross – The Ross Rant
Independent newsletter on markets, politics, and real estate, distributed via Mailchimp. Subscription available via RossRant LLC on PayPal.Young Presidents’ Organization (YPO)
Where Ross first circulated early drafts of The Ross Rant among his forum peers (2007).Urban Land Institute Conference (Chicago, May 2007)
Where Ross sparked an industry discussion on the looming crash in mortgage-backed securities—but was largely unheeded.Leon Cooperman
Legendary investor; Ross is part of Cooperman’s “brain trust” circle..Mark Mills
Energy and technology analyst, cited by Ross on the realities of cloud demand vs. AI hype in the data center market. (A previous guest of The Hale Report.)
📑 Reports
📌 MIT: "The GenAI Divide: State of AI in Business 2025 PDF Link
Found that ~95% of enterprise AI pilots fail to impact P&L—highlighting a major gap between adoption and transformation.
📌 Moody’s Analytics: Bringing the Housing Shortage into Sharper Focus PDF Link
Provides a detailed, neighborhood-level breakdown of a ~2M housing shortfall in the US, especially in workforce rental markets.
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